Official tutorial videos uncovered today show a previously unseen Oculus headset, controllers, and charging dock. The videos may reveal a new Quest 2 Pro or Quest 3 headset which could be officially revealed this week at Facebook Connect.

Four apparent tutorial videos, which Road to VR has independently confirmed to be official in origin, surfaced online Sunday showing a previously unseen Oculus headset.

The videos were posted on Twitter by user Bastian who says they come from ‘Seacliff’ firmware (which is believed to be the codename for an upcoming Oculus headset). While Bastian has consistently uncovered new information from Oculus software, they credit a user named Samulia with discovering the videos.

In addition to the unknown headset, the videos also show Oculus Touch controllers without any tracking rings, as well as a dock which appears to charge both the headset and the controllers.

The missing tracking rings on the controllers parallel previous purported leaks which suggested the new controllers may include cameras to do their own inside-out tracking, instead of being tracked by the headset’s cameras (as is the case with the original Quest and Quest 2).

It’s unclear if the headset in the videos is an upcoming product—it could simply be a placeholder or a generic headset for demonstration purposes—though it bears a striking resemblance to one of several prototype VR headsets that Facebook teased earlier this month.

Image courtesy Andrew Bosworth

If the video is portraying a new Quest headset, it appears that some of the device’s components have been moved to the rear headstrap, allowing the front of the device to become more compact and goggle-like than prior Quest headsets.

Given that the annual Facebook Connect conference is just days away, the natural speculation is that this headset will be officially revealed at the event. Mentions of a ‘Quest Pro’ device have been uncovered previously, alongside information suggesting that the headset could include face & eye-tracking. The company could of course also brand such a headset as ‘Quest 3’, though we’ll have to wait and see what is revealed at Facebook Connect on Thursday.

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Ben is the world's most senior professional analyst solely dedicated to the XR industry, having founded Road to VR in 2011—a year before the Oculus Kickstarter sparked a resurgence that led to the modern XR landscape. He has authored more than 3,000 articles chronicling the evolution of the XR industry over more than a decade. With that unique perspective, Ben has been consistently recognized as one of the most influential voices in XR, giving keynotes and joining panel and podcast discussions at key industry events. He is a self-described "journalist and analyst, not evangelist."
  • Ad

    I mean this is like last year when the journalists who reported on the Quest 2 leaks already had Quest 2s and were just under NDA, right?

    • Blaexe

      No. These are videos fetched from a Facebook server.

      Last year was very different with real world pictures and even retail leaks weeks and months in advance. It seems like Quest Pro is not releasing so soon.

      • Adrian Meredith

        But still soon as tutorial videos suggests it’s at a pretty late stage. Expect a high price and limited availability. Only evidence I can think of for it being quest 3 is the stock emptying buy one get a second for 100 off

        • Blaexe

          I mean…depends on your definition on “soon”. I don’t think well see it this year.

          And no, it’s not gonna be a Quest 3 and it will not replace Quest 2. That would go against everything we know and everything Zuckerberg and Boz have said.

          • Till Eulenspiegel

            Facebook ignored Oculus GO after launching Quest and eventually stop supporting it after 2 years. Quest 2 came out 17 months after the original Quest, and Facebook ignored it since.

            You can be sure that Quest 3 will soon make your Quest 2 obsolete. Facebook has no experience in selling products, they don’t care about long term support.

          • Mradr

            GO was a dead end anyways ~ very limited in usefulness and the only reason pick it up was because of the price with little knowing how/what it did thinking it was a full VR unit. Over all it didnt have a real future in both in sells and peoples hearts.

            With that said, looks like they are releasing 2 headsets (maybe) with one being a “pro” whatever that means. The only problem is they have such a low price point – at best you are only getting a slighl upgrade to when they do switch to Quest 3. There just isnt enough money there to really cover the cost of the hardware + R/D + extra. They would have to reduce the price across the board just to get maybe a few extra sensors without taking a lost.

          • Pablo C

            it might replace the Quest 2 as the Quest 2 replaced the Quest 1: not by much, but still is the new model.

    • johnny

      Exactly.

    • dk

      boz was saying it won’t be out this year …so they might get it 2 weeks before the release date …not now

  • VRFriend

    We know you have it already in your office :)

    • dk

      boz was saying it won’t be out this year …so they might get it 2 weeks before the release date …not now

  • Shem

    Clearly an AR headset

    • Blaexe

      Clearly a VR headset with AR passthrough…as rumored for months. And what actually makes sense.

      • Shem

        Let’s hope you’re right

      • mappo

        There would have to be an unshown accessory for this to be a VR headset. You can see the woman’s eye from the side in that video, there’s no face gasket to block outside light.

    • It’s abundantly clear this is a VR headset first and foremost.

    • dk

      it’s a quest …but with the lynx formfactor …vr and ar

    • Bob

      It’s a VR headset with AR capabilities. A fully fledged AR “smartglasses” is in the works and is still a long ways off.

    • It’s a VR + AR headset. It’s better for FB to incorporate AR into one of their VR headsets to get more users engaged with the technology. Getting people to buy a separate AR headset at this stage with such little content is not going to work. But getting people to buy a headset that is primarily for VR and also as AR, will get a lot more people using AR.

  • Holdup

    Add color pass trough, Linar scanner for environment and object detection and render the 3500$ Microsoft halo lens obsolete.

  • silvaring

    Nice to know Oculus is still keeping the entire VR industry behind with its cumbersome headstrap designs. This will ‘NOT’ be usable while lying down for a chill sesh in VR, unlike the Huawei or Pico glasses.

    • Blaexe

      Different devices for different use cases. This will be a lot more advanced than these glasses. More advanced means more hardware, more weight – and with that you need a bigger, more robust strap and weight distribution.

      I’m glad they’re going for a halo strap.

      • silvaring

        What proof do you have that this device will be much more advanced than both those devices?

        • Blaexe

          Every single leak and piece of information we have?

          Perfect controller tracking coverage, high quality AR passthrough, eye tracking, face tracking, maybe even body tracking, advanced hand tracking, compute built in…

          The Pico glasses are 3DOF with a 3DOF controller and a cable that goes into a phone. Same for the Huawei glasses. Basically media viewers.

          • silvaring

            I’ll believe it when I see it. Oculus has been dumbing down their specs to be like everyone else ever since the CV1, the only thing quest 2 is doing differently is hand tracking and that’s not even a oob feature yet.

          • Blaexe

            Even the Quest 2 is much more advanced than the ones you mentioned it…your comparison is apples to oranges either way.

            Good thing we’ll hopefully only have to wait a couple more days.

          • Doug Synoground

            This “silvaring” guy is so… out. of. touch.

            …and just plain miserable.

          • silvaring

            lol

        • kontis

          Because Quest 2 already is?

  • Andrew Jakobs

    Well at least it’s black again, that’s one thing I really hated about the Quest 2, I don’t like a white headset. But I doubt this headset will be as cheap as the Quest 2, I think it will be at least more like $600-800 if not more.. But ofcourse I do hope it’s less expensive. It’ll be a headset I might just buy as an upgrade for my Vive Pro, as the cable is annoying me more and more, but spending the ammount of a Quest 2 on the wireless addon for the Pro is just too much, if it was around $100 I would have already been using it, but 350 euro’s is way too expensive.

    • I think this could be strategy on Facebook’s part, to make each new version of their headset black then white then black then white, etc. It makes it exceptionally easy to distinguish one from the other, especially if they stick with only one main headset that simply gets new models every year or two going forward. At least I think it would be a smart move.

      • James Cobalt

        More likely, the black will signify “professional” products and the white will signify “lifestyle” products.

    • xyzs

      Speak for yourself… many enthusiasts have been asking for a premium headset. Don’t spit on people with an ounce of budget and passion.

      • Ace of Spadеs

        HMD has to be like a Monitor, you buy and keep for years, even when new tech comes the difference is minimal, not like right now every year you hgave to get one.
        Basically I want one that has mini OLED panels and 4K screen per eye, something like this can work for years and just look betetr with each GPU upgrade.
        This Quest device from the leaks looks like wrong way of doing things, SAME resolution like Quest 2 but rumors say better panels, OK but the resolution is TOO LOW.
        Everything else is nice to have, basiclly if they take Quest 2 and add 2 OLED 4K Micro displays, it will be enough for me for at least 5-6 years.
        The tracking is fine, all i want is more resolution

        • Andrew Jakobs

          At this point in time, you don’t buy a VR headset for years, the technology is still growing too much, unlike a monitor which hasn’t really been improved over many years.
          I’d rather have ‘lower resolution’ displays now with a lower price, than high resolution displays with a high price, purely due to the high resolution displays not being that great at this point in time.

          • johnyjazz

            Absolutely! A monitor is a poor comparison, unless you go back a couple of decades when CRTs were being phased out.

          • Ace of Spadеs

            I been trying VR and cant finish a game due to low resolution.

            I had Oculus Rift S and now Quest 2, yeah with cable and resolution slider to the max its better then Rift S, yet its not enough for me, i cant play any games on blurry screen
            I been using 4K since they came out, maybe since 2014
            from 2016 I use OLED 55inch 4K TV as my monitor
            I got used to quality 4K crisp image, and very sensitive to low resolution

            There are 4K micro OLED displays, no secrets here

          • Andrew Jakobs

            Yes there are 4k micro OLED displays, but they are VERY expensive.. luckily I’m not a snob and don’t mind the current resolution of the headsets, still using the Vive Pro.

      • Andrew Jakobs

        I was talking about the wireless module for the HTC Vive Pro…..

        • xyzs

          Ah indeed, my bad, sorry.

        • Pablo C

          but how the Quest pro would replace that? (PC connection)

  • oomph2

    Yes yes
    in R&D it is said that
    Innovate or Die

  • I think we can all say it’s now beyond any reasonable doubt at this point.

  • blue5peed

    Quest 3 right? looks too different to be a Quest Pro. Maybe they will make a more expensive Quest Pro now and a Quest 3 with the same features later when they can be sure they can get the price down.

    Either way looks like I’ll be signing my life away to Zuck after all. Damn it all.

  • psuedonymous@mailinator.com

    Burying the lede with that first video, which demonstrates both hand and body tracking without physical tracking pucks or controllers.

  • RazTOO

    This looks a lot like am mainly AR/second VR hybrid maybe? In order to see object in AR better you would have to dimm the display a bit …so maybe this is what the fromt sunglasses are ;)

  • Duckman

    LOL at the video with one legged woman. This obsession with inclusivity and virtue signaling is getting absurd.

    • Doug Synoground

      Nice catch.

    • Doug Synoground

      “We need a black female.”

      “That’s becoming passé. Let’s take it to the next level.”

      • sfmike

        That’s why she’s a plus sized Oprah clone with only one leg. Men are just an annoying reality at Facebook advertising that the woke female run department obviously doesn’t think represents a growing revenue stream. We’re used to being used as the villain and dumb comedy relief in advertising at this point, and being portrayed as something to be overcome on the why to female dominance and single motherhood.

        • Manochang

          you sound like your photo looks…excellent work Jimbob.

          • Ace of Spadеs

            Poor wokefilth, the best you can do is call people stupid names you invent by a comity of soy drinking zombies on twitter.

    • xyzs

      Yeah and everyone is a female and they all have skrillex haircut or purple hair, let’s consider it’s the default human.

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    • waetherman

      Aw, are your poor little white man feelings hurt?

      • MosBen

        The ridiculous thing is that it’s not like there aren’t still plenty of white dudes in advertising. It’s just not ubiquitous like it used to be, and that just drives them crazy.

        • Kevin White

          This advertising in and of itself is a trifle, more of a very minor eyeroll and or wink.

          What I’m just so dang tired of is all the other stuff that comes along with this successor ideology — particularly at work, such as the monthly struggle sessions, the prohibition on promoting certain people based on race (administered through gauging membership in strictly gatekeeped employee resource groups), the “trainings” treating us not as individuals but collectivizing us all as mere avatars of whatever demographic they say we belong to in order to sort us into various “oppressor” and “oppressed” ranks, and the language policing (examples: oppressor groups must never be the first to speak, we now are required to introduce our pronouns at the start of every meeting, and we’re prohibited from using metaphors and idioms not only because they could be offensive but because using an idiom in and of itself is exclusionary because there’s a chance a person may not have heard it before — and people can’t understand context anymore, apparently).

          • MosBen

            That sounds so cartoonish that it doesn’t really seem likely to be real, but it’s most certainly not even remotely a common experience.

          • Kevin White

            Right. Six years ago it sounded cartoonish. It’s all real and not even an outlier.

          • MosBen

            Yes, it most certainly is an outlier. And prohibiting people from promotions based on race is still illegal, no matter how much conservatives like to bitch about attempts to address historical discrimination. Introducing your pronouns is still relatively rare, but not a bad thing. But the rest of it is, yes, cartoonish and not common.

          • Kevin White

            I’m not sure how you’ve missed all this. I’m not sure where you work and don’t want to know but my company is not an outlier amongst large US corporations. This has been going on hard since June 2020. That’s when we started the sessions where we were first encouraged and then essentially required to confess our white privilege and white guilt.To “heal.”

            “The only remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination.” That’s one of the guiding principles. Not “we should view people as individuals and hire and promote based on merit” (which, as a non-racist, I believe would naturally create diversity of both background and perspective, because I don’t believe being a POC is a disability). I can assure you hiring and promoting is strongly based on immutable characteristics. It has affected people I know, and I was told back in June by my boss that we would be filling a new opening with a “diverse” person, essentially “you can apply and we’ll interview you but it’s not gonna be you despite you probably being the best fit for the actual work.” Ironically I’ve pretty much had to take on the work anyway, just without the promotion.

            I’m not a conservative in most areas, but I am 47 and this illiberal ideology / cultural shift has left me far behind.

            We’re required to have our pronouns on our screen names and although when we meet with people we’ve known for years we don’t bother, it’s now a ritual whenever somebody doesn’t know another person. Still waiting for the first person using they/them or ze / zer or bee / beeself.

          • MosBen

            I do not for a second believe that what is being presented at your job is “The only remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination.” And no, simplistic “promote based on merit” does not naturally create a diverse workplace, but taking things like background and race into account is not at all the same as prohibiting promotions based on race. And again, it’s good to let people know what pronouns you use. If you know someone and know how they prefer for others to refer to them, then great. But it’s good when you don’t know how someone would like you to refer to them to let them know, rather than simply assuming or plowing forward with how you would prefer to refer to them.

          • Kevin White

            Let me just say this: I ENVY YOU. You seem to be blissfully unaffected or unaware, or perhaps just able to sugarcoat it in a care-free way.

            That quote is straight from Ibram X. Kendi’s How To Be An Antiracist, which along with Robin DiAngelo’s White Fragility has become one of the most important books of our time. We have had learning sessions based on both books. Some of the talk has died down, but the policies remain.

          • Ace of Spadеs

            Since when you have to attend any of these BS gatherings?? They cant force you, tell them that you religious, better yet that you converted to Islam, they will be afraid of you and wont force you to do anything, also you’ll get promoted.
            Just buy that muslim hat and come to work with it, when people ask, tell them you muslim now.
            Why not search for a new job, the current one looks like nut house, and it will take them years to roll-back, the moment they see that their dumb low IQ diversity hires dont know anything and cant work properly, the company sill start losing money and then they will roll back.
            You can be wokeist ONLY in the good climate, when your company goes woke and gets broke, they will roll back.
            Aand on personal level, the wokeist filth is usually trend hoping losers, they are not idealists, and with whats going on in USA: prices go up, product scarcity, the crime that increased, especially murders skyrocketed due to woke policies, de-funding police and revolving door arrests and so on, this vile, degenerate ideology has no chance to survive.

          • sfmike

            Don’t worry you’ll eventually run into it.

          • MosBen

            No, I just expect that the reality is stuff that I’ve already experienced and think is fine, but is being fairly wildly misrepresented.

          • Kevin White

            You didn’t even know the Kendi quote so I’m fairly certain you’ve been insulated thus far (which is pretty basic). That’s fair enough — my wife is a massage therapist and hasn’t had even a tenth of the things we have at my work. I work from home so when she’s home she’s been able to see / hear some of it and was blown away. Do not be so quick to dismiss what we are saying. I’ve always been a very open-minded person who has always enjoyed meeting different types of people. Some of this stuff is bat$hit and leaves me far behind. I think JakeDunnegan above had a good point about the amputee in this ad, however. So I am backing down a tad from my earlier stance on these ads. Have a good day.

          • MosBen

            What I actually said was that I do not believe that your company, either the managers or the HR department, is presenting training to the employees which says that “the only remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination.” I didn’t say that I didn’t recognize the quote. Yes, those books have been important to discussions of race in society, but that doesn’t mean that everything that they say is being brought into companies, unfiltered, as official training and/or policies. As I’ve said, I don’t doubt that your company is instituting policies and training intended to highlight historical racism and to grapple with how the company should handle it today. My skepticism is in how you’re presenting it here, and that skepticism comes from years of working as an attorney on workplace discrimination and harassment cases.

            If you are presenting a fair and reasonable picture of what your employer is doing, then they are getting bad legal advice and are exposing themselves to litigation, if they haven’t had cases brought already. Much more likely, I think, is that they’re doing something that you don’t like, like asking people to verbalize their pronouns and talking about racism more openly (since it’s one of the specifics that you’ve mentioned multiple times), and you’ve got your feathers ruffled about it.

          • Ace of Spadеs

            WOW is that how it is at your job? Where do you work at?

      • xyzs

        Just sunflowers in a sunflower field that are tired of being represented by tulips.

      • Lulu Vi Britannia

        Just because you’re blind to current socio-political ideologies doesn’t mean people who denounce it are “fragile white men”.

        Also, I thought racism and sexism was bad. Why are you assuming an anonymous’ race and gender then? Braindead hypocrites everywhere…

        • Elite-Force_Cinema

          http://disq.us/p/2kewwpn

          And disappointed means you do not like the company! Get your facts right on what the word disappointed means you Valve Index and SteamVR fantard!!!

      • Jistuce

        No, it just galls my ablist bipedal supremacy.

    • Kevin White

      Yah, I mean I really like the idea of VR being *accessible* to as many people as possible, but I’m not so much interested in the ideology of DEI or the corporate signaling of conforming to said ideology.

    • Zearoh

      Or are they showing that the new avatars have customization options like that? – currently they’re just floating upper-torsos. If there are options that allow amputees to represent themselves however they choose, that’s only a good thing.

    • JakeDunnegan

      Well, I don’t mind diversity, I get it, it’s a thing, but there’s one type of diversity inclusion, I certainly don’t have a problem seeing, and that’s amputee victims.

      Given the tendency for those with missing limbs to have been in the military of one sort or the other these days, I don’t mind seeing them represented in advertising. There have been over 52,000 Americans (and I’m sure other countries are well represented) wounded since 9/11 in the War on Terror.

      • Kevin White

        Good point.

      • Zantetsu

        Hero worship FTW.

        • JakeDunnegan

          Not sure I follow. How does recognizing amputee veterans equate to hero worship? They may or may not be heroes, but they are certainly worthy of being recognized (at the least) in a help video for an Oculus product.

      • Ace of Spadеs

        The only war this black fat woman attended was 2005 black Friday war at the local wallmart, where she heroically lost her leg to the mob stomping her while running to grab discount toilet paper.

        • JakeDunnegan

          People have been known to gain weight after losing limbs, as their mobility is impacted. I wasn’t specifically saying this person was a military amputee, but that’s not really the point.

          Seriously, your comment is in poor taste.

    • Alexander Sears

      I’m OK with virtue signaling, so long as one walks the walk.
      As far as I can tell, Facebook just wants us to buy their stuff.

    • Manochang

      may I ask…are you a healthy, white male?

  • JesuSaveSouls

    I’m looking for wide fov, higher hz and big 10k resolution. This new headset has cameras and charging stations, but that’s not impressive to me. At least 130 fov and 3000 resolution per eye. 150hz. Pay too, 500.

    • Definitely agree on the wider field of view (and maybe a slight jump in resolution and possibly 90Hz as default, rather than 72Hz default with only some stuff using 90Hz and even less 120Hz). And making it as light as possible is a must. The rest I’m not too bothered about as what’s there is perfectly fine for now imo.

      • shadow9d9

        And what is going to power the extra field of view and then extra resolution of it all? Unicorns?

    • Bob

      So you want a headset with 5K resolution per eye, 130+ horizontal and vertical field of view, 150Hz refresh rate all for the low low price of $500? I’m sorry your wishlist is very much like pulling unicorns out of thin air.

      Please educate yourself before making absurd comments like this.

    • adsf (jj)

      10k…. 10k? 10k?! You must really believe in miracles. the most recent unobtainable graphics cards, 3000’s can barely run 4k still. you want 10k?? lol wtf

    • dk

      3000 res per eye 130 fov is actually not good ppd tho lol

  • xyzs

    Good form factor improvement!
    Now, we want to discover the specs and weight.
    Visa preheating.

    • Bob

      OLED unlikely. Fresnel lenses? This one is up for debate. Rumors have been flying around forums and elsewhere that the next Quest iteration will have the “next-generation” lenses that FRL have been working for a long while. Every product released from Facebook and the majority of other companies have had fresnel lenses which as we already know are less than ideal for clarity. The likelihood of them moving on from the tried-and-true fresnel lenses is quite high I’d say.

      • Sofian

        Form factor points toward pancake lenses.

  • Kevin White

    Imagine controllers actually being inside-out tracked. I’ve been saying we need that for years. Not an FB fan but interesting tech.

  • Nothing to see here

    Loving the forehead mount. Currently the Quest2 becomes uncomfortable to wear due to the pressure around the face after about an hour.

    • Hivemind9000

      Yeah I got something similar for my Pimax and made the world of difference. Took all the weight off my cheeks and nose bridge. But it does get sweaty and hot after using it for a while. Needs a way to let your forehead breathe.

  • Ace of Spadеs

    I NEVER Seen so much Wokeist Drivel shoved into 3 second instruction videos, EVER. Facebook outsoyed every corporation on planet earth.

    The Black woman is both Fat and Disabled. Im surprised she doesn’t have a huge Afro, but maybe she Hindu.

    The White “woman” [am i misgendering it?] has the annoying man-copy 4th wave feminist haircut [which as always they stole from Men, I have it since the 90s when i was a teenager, on and off, its “nice” that they stole it from us, so now I look like one of them, yeck] and the rolled up sleeves and that idiotic flower tattoo, i bet they intended to make it look like “shes a hard working girl that doesnt need no man to open her doors”, but instead they made another generic soy looking thing.

    • shadow9d9

      Get a life.

      • Ace of Spadеs

        Soy is bad for your IQ

    • Mrfox Babbit

      I found the angsty teenager!

      • Ace of Spadеs

        Still a teenager… since the 90’s

    • Manochang

      little boys feeling threatened by an animation huh…adorable.

      • Ace of Spadеs

        Yeah, by soy zombies

  • JesuSaveSouls

    New Pimax announcement. I’m not a spokesperson, but definitely invest in the products and promote Pimax. I don’t have any affiliation and make no money. These guys are years ahead in innovation.
    https://youtu.be/sNfEDlAUGU0

    • dk

      at the small price of 8 quest2s and coming in 1 or 2 years or more for all the features

  • JesuSaveSouls
  • grindathotte .

    This does not look very “Pro” to me.

    • grindathotte .

      Not the first video anyway. The second one does however, so maybe a prosumer model.

  • Keopsys

    STOP WRITING IN BOLD !!! You can’t figure out that everybody is tired of you ?

    • Mrfox Babbit

      It must really damage your oh so delicate sensibilities.

      • Keopsys

        This guys writes in bold for years, and everybody asked him to stop but he continues. Yes, that gets on my nerves. I don’t like attention whores.

        • MosBen

          Take it easy on them. They’re clearly somebody’s grandparent who is just now figuring out this internet thing. Based on their political opinions, my guess is that they mostly just share memes on Facebook. God(s) help us if they ever discover the caps lock though.

    • Who’s “everybody”? lol

  • Holdup

    My prediction is that this won’t come out till next year and it won’t be a quest 2 pro it would be the next gen oculus headset but instead of quest 3 the name would be quest pro not quest 2 pro but quest pro. The so called full body tracking is just a mirror AR party trick where you can use a real mirror to see your reflection through the front camera and in theory you can put filters/AR objects ontop of your mirrored reflection, neat but not as cool as full body tracking.

  • Joseph Elwell

    Ugh. I don’t want unreplaceable batteries in my controllers. AA batteries are cheap and have no battery memory that causes the battery to devolve over time. A fresh AA battery every single time is so simple and effective.

  • Alexander Sears

    Maybe the same tech in these ringless controllers will find their way into some Full Body Trackers, now that we no longer rely on line of sight…

  • Sofian

    Not much room for adjustment with that strap design, the new lenses must have a really big sweetspot.

  • Lucidfeuer

    I’m not sure to understand how their new head…crown (?) is supposed to work